#194: An honest conversation with my friend, Justin Moore (live from CEX)

Jay Clouse [00:00:14]:
Hey. Last week, I was invited to speak at the 3rd Annual Content Entrepreneur Expo, also known as CEX. We had more than 20 members of the lab at the event. It was fantastic. We hosted a dinner on the 1st night for everyone, and we had a great time connecting, reconnecting in person, getting to meet each other for the first time in some cases. It was also an opportunity for me to really catch up with my good friend, Justin Moore. Justin has been on the show a bunch of times, and I'll link to some of the past episodes with Justin in the show notes. He's the founder of Creator Wizard, and he is the guy to learn sponsorship strategy from.

Jay Clouse [00:00:50]:
And I mean that very, very sincerely. We operate similar businesses. We both serve creators. So whenever we have a chance to catch up, it's always worthwhile. It's soul feeding as Justin put it. And this time we decided to just record our 1 on 1 friend catch up for you to learn from as well. This is a super transparent look into our businesses and really our friendship. I hit record as soon as we sat down, and we just plan to catch up as we normally would as 2 friends, but we had microphones in our hand.

Jay Clouse [00:01:20]:
So I hope you enjoy this look into our lives and friendship. And if you do enjoy it, please let me know. Share the episode. Tag me on social media at jklaus, and we'll make more of these with Justin, with other friends of mine. And by the way, I will be hosting more in person meetups for the lab at ConvertKit's craft and commerce event in early June in Boise and VidSummit in September. So if you're a full time creator, I invite you to apply to the lab and join us both online and in person potentially later this year. The link to join the lab is in the show notes. We'll get to that conversation with Justin Moore right after this.

Jay Clouse [00:01:58]:
Little friend catch up. Let's do it. Which usually do not record it, and that's like the point of catching up. But we're gonna just record it anyway. We're doing it live. So you have a book coming out.

Justin Moore [00:02:09]:
I have a book coming out. I do.

Jay Clouse [00:02:11]:
I don't know where you find the time to write it.

Justin Moore [00:02:14]:
Well, I made a herculean effort to completely change my calendar, actually.

Jay Clouse [00:02:20]:
Okay. Tell me about that.

Justin Moore [00:02:21]:
Which, was it felt herculean, but I'm realizing now as I'm saying this, this is like super, like, wussy to say. But, you know, I did have a lot of, like, standing meetings in the mornings that I had to completely change around and, like, honestly, making space. So I basically created a writing block from 9 to 11 every morning, Monday through Friday. And it's sacred, and I don't I don't screw with it anymore. And if it's required, I I like to say I'm entering a season of no where it's required me saying no to a lot of things, meetings, podcasts, things like that, which I realize is a privilege. But it's hard because I've said yes to everything for, like, the last time.

Jay Clouse [00:02:57]:
To, like, get

Justin Moore [00:02:58]:
to where you are. Yeah. Exactly. Right? And so, like, pains me to be, like, I'm so sorry. And, like, I've had to, like, literally, like, like, Google, like, how do I say no until I'm filming a podcast invite No. Or, like, things like this without being, like, like an a hole. Right?

Jay Clouse [00:03:13]:
I'm so bad at conversation. My no is just a non answer

Justin Moore [00:03:16]:
Yeah.

Jay Clouse [00:03:16]:
Which I'm realizing is, like, maybe more unkind than saying no. So it is, like, how do you say no in a kind but firm way?

Justin Moore [00:03:24]:
I have I have a I have a template now. Not a template, but I have something that Give it

Jay Clouse [00:03:27]:
to me.

Justin Moore [00:03:27]:
Tell me. Which is, thank you so much. I'm so honored, you know, that you'd invite me or ask me to do this. I am juggling a lot of internal projects right now, and I don't have the bandwidth for this. But thank you so much.

Jay Clouse [00:03:41]:
I like it. Yeah. I like it. Okay. Cool. Let me I have I have more questions. So you said you had a you had a bunch of standing meetings. What did your previous paradigm look like? What were those standing meetings? Yeah.

Justin Moore [00:03:52]:
So some were internal meetings with my team, whether it was like 1 on ones with Dee who runs, operations and community for me. I have, an operations assistant named Bianca who handles a lot of my day to day stuff, emails, a lot of, you know, just administrative support with our community and courses and customer service type, you know, like, stuff that we're trying to keep updated. You know, I'm launching a conference next year, so we're starting to have meeting like, standing meetings about that to try to plan that. I have a, a team that helps me run some of my paid media, efforts for my courses and webinars and things like that. So we had a standing meeting there. And then a lot of freelancers and things like that who I work with in different time zones, especially in Europe, like, the 8 to 9 Pacific time is, like, the only time that

Jay Clouse [00:04:42]:
Is that like It's like the

Justin Moore [00:04:43]:
end of day for them.

Jay Clouse [00:04:43]:
Is that like video editing, thumbnail stuff?

Justin Moore [00:04:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, video editing, thumbnail stuff, you know, if I ever worked with, like, script writers, you know, I worked with George for many years, not many years. I guess, about a year, and he was in UK. And so that, like, window in the morning was the only time I could I could chat with him. So, yeah, a lot of that had to change.

Jay Clouse [00:05:03]:
You're so good at, like, delegating and empowering people. How did you move those meetings now? Where does the communication happen? Was a lot that just inefficient and unnecessary?

Justin Moore [00:05:14]:
I would say I've been very conscious to change these things to be asynchronous, to try to. To say, hey, can we do this asynchronously? You know, or what I will actually do instead of asking, I will send an asynchronous video in response to the email or to the social chat or whatever. And, and then say, hey. Can we do this async? Like, can you just send back a Loom like this or send back a tele video or something? And people are, like, usually, like, enjoy it actually or, oh, I've never tried this. Like, let me let me give it a shot. Right? In fact, do you know Tristan from Ultra Speaking? I haven't met him. Monobello. He's an awesome

Jay Clouse [00:05:50]:
They tried me into that cohort Yeah. And it seemed like something I should do, but I also maybe this is something we talked about. I feel like speaking is something I'm deprioritizing Yeah. As an interest, but, like, performance, dude, seems important. Okay. I completely disagree with you. Okay. Okay.

Justin Moore [00:06:04]:
I I do I I no. Not that I'm disagreeing with your deprioritization, but the pervasiveness of what I learned in that ultra speaking course Yeah. Like, goes into way more than just speaking. You have a podcast, bro.

Jay Clouse [00:06:17]:
You have a YouTube

Justin Moore [00:06:18]:
channel. No. And it's so much of what I learned in there was about it was way more about, like, way more than the delivery of speaking. Right?

Jay Clouse [00:06:26]:
Yeah.

Justin Moore [00:06:26]:
But just quick example is, like, Tristan invited me into that cohort too, and he was like, hey, let's hop on, like, a 30 minute call. I just wanna make sure that this is gonna be right for you. And I was like, hey, here's a loom. Like, I don't can we do this instead? And he was like, wow. I've never had someone do this. And so there's like people respond, like, favorably to it usually.

Jay Clouse [00:06:43]:
You do asynchronous coaching. It's like this I do. Quiet, amazing secret of what you're doing in the business and it's growing. Something I've been playing around with, especially, like, because we're having a kid soon. Yeah. And I want more members of the lab to be on the VIP tier because I wanna support them personally because I think it creates better experiences. But I'm also trying to reduce scheduled commitments on the calendar because I know life's gonna get more chaotic in a way I haven't predicted. Talk to me about asynchronous coaching and how much of a load that is and how you manage when you respond to people.

Justin Moore [00:07:18]:
It is a 1 to 2 percent operational load for me because I don't do it anymore.

Jay Clouse [00:07:23]:
Okay.

Justin Moore [00:07:23]:
It is completely run by my team. Oh. So Okay. This is a a transition though. It's a shift where these are people so to take a step back, what the offer is, it is twice weekly asynchronous sponsorship coaching. So every Tuesday Thursday, if you have ongoing negotiations or you're trying to pitch certain brands, then we will help you put the proposals together, figure out the pricing, figure out how to respond to brands who are in them, you know, asking you questions you don't know how know how to respond to. And the vast majority of people in that program are alumni of my course, and so they have the foundational principles, like, down. Right? And so a lot of those people are familiar with folks on my team already.

Justin Moore [00:08:07]:
So Dee in particular is, like, a a big part of that course, and so they know her. And so there was it wasn't hard for me to say, like, look. This offer is going to be not serviced by me, but serviced by people who I trust and who are, and actually recently brought on Joe as a a coach as well. So he's a freelance small strip coach, Joe Casa Bonap. It's been amazing because now I only get brought into, I would say, high stakes issues where, like, either of them don't know really know how to respond to a situation. Interesting. So maybe it's like a 6 figure deal, and we were really wanna make sure we nail it for a particular client. But I've been setting the expectation now for about the last 6 months that I'm not in there.

Justin Moore [00:08:45]:
It's it's my team.

Jay Clouse [00:08:46]:
Man, you're so good at operationalizing.

Justin Moore [00:08:49]:
Dude. I, you know, I I think part of it is that, like, empowering people. In the beginning, it was just, like, I was very like, oh, let me I wanna make sure that, like, what they're saying to these coaching clients is, like, right, you know. But what I found was that empowering I first of all, they've both been through my program. Dee is a past student. Joe is a past student. They've been doing sponsorships, both of them, for for a while. Joe in particular has been doing it for a really long time.

Justin Moore [00:09:16]:
And so when I when I entrusted them and be like, look, you own this. It's not like like I'm over here, like, overseeing it, and I'm, like, double checking your work. I'm not double checking your work. You own this. And so I think when you when you when people get it, like, oh, it's this is mine. Like, I own it. Dee owns the she owns that program. She has set up the guardrails.

Justin Moore [00:09:38]:
You know, we've had situations where it's been tricky, dude, because, like, we didn't have a lot of guardrails when we started it because it was new. Like, this is never I don't know anyone who has a program like this. Like, it's I don't it's new. Right? And so we didn't know how many questions people would ask. Mhmm. You know? Because the the expectations is like, okay. Every Tuesday Thursday, excluding the holidays, like, you know, you can get coaching. Right? And we didn't say, like, it's between 9 and 11 AM EST.

Justin Moore [00:10:05]:
Like, we didn't put guardrails on it. Right? And so the general thing that we've landed on is, like, okay. By the end of the day of those Tuesdays Thursdays, no one has an unanswered question. Base is the kind of the It's

Jay Clouse [00:10:15]:
kinda like we will empty the queue. Yeah. We will

Justin Moore [00:10:17]:
empty the queue. You can you can ask questions any day, any time, like, regardless of time zone, but we will get to them and we will respond to you on those days. And so, we have had some creators who have joined who have, like, asked holy cow, like

Jay Clouse [00:10:31]:
Like a ton.

Justin Moore [00:10:32]:
A ton. Yeah. Right? And and to that point, no one had ever asked, like, that volume. And so we had to have meetings and think, okay. Like, we have to establish some guardrails. Like, how do we do this? Like, what what is the offer? Like, what are we promising people? And so it's it's been a little bit bit of growing pains, but it but it's good. It's good. It's just like we're kinda figuring it out.

Jay Clouse [00:10:49]:
Yeah. Do you find that it falls like a third, a third, a third where, like, a third, use it less than you expected, a third use it about as much, and a third use it more?

Justin Moore [00:10:57]:
Yeah. I would say so because, like, a lot of people use it as a backstop where it's like, you know, they're doing sponsorships is, like, a major part of their revenue stream, and so they are you know, they know multiple deals every month is happening. And so, yeah, one week, they may not have, like, an active negotiation, but we're always, like, proactively if we don't hear from them, we're proactively following up and be, like, hey. You know, just want to, like, if a day goes by, a Tuesday or a Thursday, we don't hear from them, it's not a big deal. But, like, if the next day goes by, we don't hear, then we'll proactively follow-up and just, hey, anyway, we can support you, this type of thing.

Jay Clouse [00:11:26]:
Is this a monthly recurring thing?

Justin Moore [00:11:28]:
It is. Okay. Yeah. So it's so it's 1,000 month or 10 k for the year. We're up to 8 members in there now. So we, like, have started to we've signed some, like, very large creators recently. People interestingly, like, we've had the last two people that have joined. It's not the creator.

Justin Moore [00:11:48]:
It's someone on their team. Mhmm. So it's their general manager or their operations manager or some someone like that. And so we've and and they've had, like, multiple team members, like, want to be in the room, essentially. So they're trying to develop this competency in house. And so it's been interesting to see the types of people who have joined. I haven't I can't say that I predicted that.

Jay Clouse [00:12:09]:
So this is a 1 to 2 percent operational load for you. You've reclaimed your mornings to write 2 hours for the book. Yep. What else are you finding that you're spending a lot of your time on right now?

Justin Moore [00:12:19]:
I would say a lot of my headspace is dedicated to the book for sure. But also the conference that I'm launching called the Sponsorship Strategy Summit next year. Haven't figured out the day or the or the place for that. But those two things feel like this is the thing, dude. Like, sponsorships is like the number one revenue source for many many creators, many many business owners. And there's no book and there's no conference devoted to these two things. And so to some degree, I'm like, I need to do these things as quickly as possible. So part of me feels this, like, urgency urgency to, like, get these things done.

Justin Moore [00:12:57]:
And I feel as though once I've, like, done these 2 big things, maybe I can kinda take my foot off the gas a little bit. And these are totally self imposed.

Jay Clouse [00:13:06]:
Also, like, as soon as those things are done, there's gonna be some new urgent thing that you're like Of course. Oh, this is another secret that, like, I'm I'm early to the market too. I need to do this as quickly as possible. But after this is done, I'll

Justin Moore [00:13:16]:
feel good. Dude, it is. It it's weird though because it feels like to some degree not like I like a land grab. Like, I need to, like

Jay Clouse [00:13:22]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Justin Moore [00:13:23]:
Totally get it. I gotta, like, like, stake my claim to, like, this this, like, corner of the creator economy because, like, there's gonna be new entrants. And not that I feel like I have competition or whatever, but, like, I don't know. Yeah. Do you do you feel that ever?

Jay Clouse [00:13:36]:
Totally relate to it. Totally relate to it.

Justin Moore [00:13:37]:
How do you how does that how do you relate to

Jay Clouse [00:13:39]:
Well, I mean, it's like this is such a red ocean we're swimming in. Oh, dude. The word creator, the identity of creator, even just like expanded out to like the make money online space, the entrepreneurship space. And there's constantly new people getting in because the barrier to entry is very low and it's such a direct promise that people want that like it's easy to promise people, hey, make life changing money online quickly. It's easy. Like people want to believe that and so it's easy to make that promise and see results and earn money yourself that way. So I'm I'm explicitly trying to move up market and saying that, like, my content is advanced creator education because there's fewer people playing there because it's harder. And also, like, it's not as big of an opportunity.

Jay Clouse [00:14:32]:
Like, you can charge higher prices but there's fewer people out of there. Like I know from RightMessage that 83% of my subscribers are like still trying to get traction or even earlier. So like only 17% of people would even qualify for the lab. And I'm basically saying I'm targeting my content and offerings at 17% of people that are following my stuff. But the other thing is people are really bad at self identifying their competency and where they're at. So sounds shitty to say, but like the Dunning Kruger effect is very real. When people don't know what they don't know, they overestimate themselves. So there's like a lot of people who, believe they're more advanced than I would say that they are.

Jay Clouse [00:15:22]:
And so I'm also thinking like aspirationally, I think if I position myself as advanced content creation, it's still gonna appeal to early stage people because they're not going to accurately identify where they are in the journey. And people want to follow, like, aspirational outcomes. But anyway, like, the the creative space is so crowded and sometimes I, like, resent playing in the sandbox because there are, like, really bad actors that make the whole thing feel kinda gross sometimes. And our incentives are to convince people to try to do this path because that's like how we can grow the business. And I really don't like doing that. Like I have no interest in trying to convince somebody that they should be a creator or that they should be an entrepreneur because it's really hard and most people aren't set up for it. And it's gonna, like, set them up for years of pain if they, like, aren't willing to see it through for 3, 5 years. It'll just be, like, 3 years of struggle where you'll learn skills.

Jay Clouse [00:16:22]:
You'll come out like better for it in some ways, but probably at like the cost of real money that you could make just working a job. Can we go here for

Justin Moore [00:16:31]:
a second for you in particular? Because, I know privately we've discussed this, and I hope it's okay that I'm bringing this up on the pod. On the pod. On the pod. But, book has been something that's been on your radar for a while. And it's sounding like maybe this is part of the friction associated with figuring out the focus of the book. Right? Because it's like Yeah. Yeah. You could write the med you could write the creator science book.

Justin Moore [00:16:55]:
Right. Of, like, I've interviewed Right. Creators and, like, here's my lessons and blah blah blah. Like, that's a book. Right? And it would probably do well. But it sounds like there's some other maybe more ambitious higher level things that Yeah. You've called it a bridge to the future of, like, maybe there's something else for you down the

Jay Clouse [00:17:11]:
line. Yeah. I think for my life, I I want to serve more people. Like, I see creators as a subset of entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are a small subset of the population. And I have ambitions to just serve a broader more human problem and apply the creator skill set to doing that. Like, I am a meta creator because I didn't know what thing I wanted to create about. But I, like, really wanted to be a creator.

Jay Clouse [00:17:42]:
So, like, the thing I spent so much time studying and thinking about was the act of being a creator. And I just so happen to be better at analyzing, breaking down, explain that to other people than a lot of people who fall into the same trap. But sometimes it's like, I get a lot of joy out of being good at something and then not having to turn around and teach that exact thing right away. You know, like I'll, I'll make something, I'll post something out. And then immediately the question is like, how did you do this? And like, my role as a teacher in this company is to turn around and teach people how I did it. But I also would like to just apply the skill sets that I have to some other broader human problem. So to the book, there are a lot of books I could write that squarely serve the existing audience I have who are trying to become professional creators or grow as professional creators. There's a really good argument to be made for writing that book.

Jay Clouse [00:18:33]:
The best outcome for a book is that it is successful and you're well known for it and you're going to be speaking to and known for that book for 5 years, 10 years, maybe your whole life. And if I think there's a a future outside of being a creator for creators, that positive outcome might not be the outcome that I want. And if there's that little bit of doubt that I don't want that outcome, I'm going to subconsciously sandbag and self destruct and then it's just a waste of time to do the book at all because, like, you're not giving it its best chance to succeed. So I'm more interested in identifying a topic of a book that serves the existing audience for what they're trying to do as creators but also has a foot into a broader human interest.

Justin Moore [00:19:25]:
Is there an author or another person that you look up to who's been able to do something like that?

Jay Clouse [00:19:31]:
I don't know about the transitionary nature of it, but like I do aspire to the life of an author. Like I'm really in awe of the lifestyles and businesses of Ryan Holiday, James Clear, to a degree, Shane Parrish. Authors are so good at restraint. Every time I try to, like, get in touch with an author to come on the show, they are the most consistent in saying not right now, like explicit no. Here's a boundary. Here's a rule. I'm doing this, but when the book is ready, I'll do it. They're so good at saying no to things so that they can continue to write and I want my life to be simpler over time, not more complex.

Justin Moore [00:20:12]:
Why can't why do do you feel like that's only a liberty afforded to people who have achieved a certain level of success?

Jay Clouse [00:20:20]:
No. But I I do think that, like, as you have more financial stability, you have more optionality and the ability to say no to things that have, like, a short term revenue impact. Like, you can say no to things that would be revenue in the short term because you know like long term I'm more interested in doing this and I have the flexibility to say no to this right now.

Justin Moore [00:20:39]:
But I mean, don't you have that stability right now?

Jay Clouse [00:20:42]:
As of recently, maybe. I think I think like literally last month we hit like a cash flow state of being that the business would support. My wife and I, we're both partners in the business. We're both w two employees of the business. I think we're at the point now where I do have that ability if the business continues to perform as it's performing which the question then is what changes could I make in the operations of the business that would save me time in the immediate term but not have a degrading effect on the success and growth of the business long term.

Justin Moore [00:21:20]:
Okay. So we gotta go somewhere where I've been wanting to go with you for a while, which is that I think that the the the answer to your prayers to make that happen is you have to knight someone in the community to to be For

Jay Clouse [00:21:35]:
the community?

Justin Moore [00:21:36]:
Yes. For the lab. To it where it's not just Jay being the guy who's like you literally answers comments within, like, 5 minutes of them being posted. Yeah. Like, super in-depth. And I'm not saying you don't have you have to stop doing it. Yeah. But I'm saying, like, you have someone that is, like, either an alumni of the lab or a current member who always gives really deep, rich feedback that you really trust, and this person becomes a lab helper or a lab assistant or, you know, like, I feel like that would that would free up so much meant just simply from a mental bandwidth perspective of you feeling the pressure to, like, take paternity leave or, like, not respond super quickly when there's, like, family stuff, you know?

Jay Clouse [00:22:19]:
I don't feel much pressure from the lab anymore, because like the community itself supports itself pretty well. There are like thi there are aspects of membership I want to improve, but I don't actually feel a time crunch from that experience anymore. I feel the crunch from ongoing content creation more than anything else because we're not ahead of schedule on the podcast or the YouTube channel or the newsletter. Like, all of that is happening pretty much in real time.

Justin Moore [00:22:47]:
Now I know why you asked me to do this impromptu podcast. You're like, I need content. Content. Content.

Jay Clouse [00:22:52]:
So hungry. Feed the content machine.

Justin Moore [00:22:54]:
So let's talk about this though. But like, if you let's say you dialed back the cadence Mhmm. Or change the cadence

Jay Clouse [00:23:02]:
Mhmm.

Justin Moore [00:23:02]:
Of the YouTube channel or the pod or the newsletter or whatever, is there a fear or uncertainty of, like, how that will negatively impact the top of funnel for the business, waiting list for the lab, etcetera?

Jay Clouse [00:23:14]:
Yes. Short answer, yes. I think in the recent past it would have been a worry about revenue because I was thinking of my content as ad inventory. Right? And I was very much trying to like increase inventory sell through inventory but I've changed that and my filter is much stronger. The way I approach sponsorship is different. So like Shout out creator wizard. Yeah. We our previous conversation listen to my previous conversation.

Jay Clouse [00:23:41]:
We've we've aired both here on this channel, but, I was on Justin's YouTube channel talking about my podcast or my sponsorship strategy. Helps a lot. But I feel less fear about losing revenue by not publishing more. I feel more fear about, losing relevance and slowing the momentum that I'm feeling in the business because I do think that like especially in this space where like you are a creator showing creators how to be a creator. I have to walk the talk and show people what it looks like to be consistent and publish a lot and that's, like, my proof of work is what makes people follow my advice and direction. It's because they see the work product.

Justin Moore [00:24:27]:
I disagree. Tell me. Mainly because, like, you were all okay. Let's let's completely remove the YouTube channel. Okay. You you kind of didn't have a YouTube presence as of, like, a year

Jay Clouse [00:24:40]:
and a half ago.

Justin Moore [00:24:41]:
2 years ago. Right? And your business was, like, doing pretty well. You were already near capacity in the lab, I think. Right? And that just came just from the newsletter and the podcast. Like, you had you had filled that

Jay Clouse [00:24:52]:
Yep. And Twitter and

Justin Moore [00:24:53]:
Twitter and Twitter. And LinkedIn maybe to some degree. But, like, you have added incrementally a massive amount of eyeballs onto you and your business with the YouTube channel over the last year or 2. Right? Which has only added to your relevance and your credibility and all this stuff too. And, of course, there is like this I get it, dude. I feel it. Like, this, like, constant, you know, thing in the back of your head. Like, what's the next YouTube video? What's the next post? All this.

Justin Moore [00:25:22]:
But, like, I almost like, if I if I could hold up a mirror to you of the talk that you gave here at CEX about, you know, what is the content that you're most proud of in terms of a legacy or things that people will remember you by, I would argue that you could dial back the cadence of those legacy type assets, the long form stuff, and still be very relevant even if it's you dial it back by 50%. Because the stuff that you do is so high quality, dude. It's not like low quality stuff that you're trying to do.

Jay Clouse [00:25:57]:
I know, like, that's logistically true, but it is or not logically true logistically true. I know it's logically true, but it it feels scary. It feels like I worry that I'm, like, letting myself off the hook. And, like, maybe the way to do it is just get better about my time and batch create content and just get ahead of content and keep the schedule.

Justin Moore [00:26:20]:
But you're but you're never gonna be able to get ahead of content because you're all even if you get a month ahead, then it's like, oh, you can, like, take your foot off the gas for a little bit.

Jay Clouse [00:26:28]:
And then

Justin Moore [00:26:28]:
you That's what I do.

Jay Clouse [00:26:29]:
And then

Justin Moore [00:26:29]:
you, like, come back right

Jay Clouse [00:26:30]:
but that's not what everybody does. Like, there are people who are just content machines that are so much better at just, like, batching, and they do truly get ahead of content. I've seen it.

Justin Moore [00:26:38]:
Here's a quick anecdote. Like, I participated in this, short form accelerator, like, boot camp type thing. It was called Cut 30. It was awesome. Shout out to Oren, Alex, and the boys. But for, like, 3 months, 4 months, I was, like, a short form machine. I was, like, really good. I was like, I wanna have one thing to post per day.

Justin Moore [00:26:58]:
Like, it was great. And I saw I saw results in the business, like, for sure. Like All the way down. Revenue. All the way down. People joining the, you know so, like, you know, people would, see the thing. They would follow me. I have my, like, newsletter link or my master class, my on demand evergreen master class.

Justin Moore [00:27:13]:
They would join that, and then I'd pitch my course at the end. So it was, like, very clear, like, ROI benefit from, like, more short form content. And then for the last, like, month, I have not been consistent. And it's gone down, you know, like the number of course enrollments, but, like, not by not to 0. Mhmm. It's gone to, like, maybe down, like, 30%, 25%. Right? Which is, like, I can absorb that in the business. Like, it's not, like, the end of the world.

Justin Moore [00:27:38]:
Right? But it it was interesting to me because it didn't go to 0. Right? And so I think as creators sometimes who are multiplatform creators, like, a lot of us are, you know, YouTube, podcast, newsletter, all this stuff, it's very hard to attribute where a lot of this, like, traffic is coming from. And so there's this tendency, I think, to just, like, be everywhere all the time and post everywhere and have a presence everywhere. And I think my argument is that you've built up a baseline level of support to such a degree on some of the most important platforms like your newsletter, etcetera, that, like, your business could sustain itself with a a drastically lower cadence of content is my argument.

Jay Clouse [00:28:18]:
You're probably right. You're probably right. And, like, some of this will be forced by having a baby and there will be less time. The schedule will look different at least, And it'll take time to adjust to what that is. So, like, I think there might be a slowdown to some degree. And because that the other thing I think about all the time is, like, just a couple weeks ago, I re aired my episode with Chanel on the podcast. It did super well when it first aired. This is the first time that I've re aired it.

Jay Clouse [00:28:45]:
Did super well again. Like, there's so many assets I've created that I could reintroduce because, like, all content is a flowing river. If you miss my new podcast this week, like you might not even realize it was there and you can reintroduce it. So I do wanna get generally like right now my project is getting more out of what is there. I basically feel like at this point, the way things are constructed, I get one proactive project at a time outside of maintaining the promises I've already made. And right now the project is just getting the most out of what is already there to help people way find through what exists. I wanna, like, create this rabbit hole, bingeable catalog, body of work, and that's kind of the project. And You have that though.

Jay Clouse [00:29:30]:
A lot it's it's there. It's and I'm making it a little bit better all the time. But that's why I, like, things are more comfortable now than they have been in the past is, like, that's getting better. But I do it's I don't know how I'll completely rid myself of that, like, lizard brain will I not be relevant if I don't post today, this week?

Justin Moore [00:29:50]:
I think it's so, you know, like, April and I have been on YouTube for a very long time since 2009, and it doesn't go away, but that's because we're self employed. I think that's really the root of it. It's not about being a creator. I think this is a pervasive feeling for anyone who derives income from a non w two or non employer based salary. I think it's just like where's where's the mortgage payment gonna come from next month or you know what I mean? But, like, not not that, obviously. And so whatever it is in your life or your business, whether it's being a creator or being a freelancer or being self employed or whatever, I think that's just, like, part of what comes with this. There's a lot of, pros, obviously, but but these are some of the cons, I think. And it's like making peace with, like, understanding that and realizing, like, it's okay to have those fears, and that uncertainty, and especially when both of you do it.

Justin Moore [00:30:44]:
When when there's not, like, now that Mallory is, like, full time in the business, like, it introduces a a a new dynamic that didn't that wasn't there before. It was, like, okay. It's like all our eggs in one basket now. Totally.

Jay Clouse [00:30:55]:
It's the the the pace of change of what the business has done for our lifestyle. It's been in such a short period of time that we haven't overcome like, our childhoods, what it was like growing up. We both joke, like, she has this thing where anytime we're, like, at the grocery store and there's a sign in the window that says help wanted, like her instinct is to consider applying for that job still today. And for me, like, I do the same thing. Sometimes it's like job listings or like we we had somebody in the lab post a part time position and I saw that I'm like, do I have time to do that? I was like, what is wrong with me?

Justin Moore [00:31:33]:
That's crazy. Very interesting.

Jay Clouse [00:31:36]:
Because for a long time, it was like, I want to have some level of certainty around income so that I have enough time and space to create the content. But, like, my brain is still in that place because the pace of change to get to where I am today has been so rapid that yeah. I I like still don't quite grasp even though I have literal years of month by month KPI tracking to show like this is my baseline revenue month by month for the last 3 years. Instinctively, emotionally, it still feels like this could go to 0 tomorrow.

Justin Moore [00:32:07]:
Well, and I think part of of embracing the uncertainty is realizing that it could go to 0 And you have an you have the tools and the capacity and the expertise to be fine. Yeah. To find instantly find a job if you needed to. There's an, an unlimited number of, you know, people you could call, companies that you could reach out to that would hire you in an instant. So if the if the fear is, like, I won't have income coming in, obviously, like, maybe that's not an ideal scenario, but it's like, you would be fine. Totally.

Jay Clouse [00:32:41]:
I know. Like, you would be just fine. Logically, I know this to be true. I don't know how to make that my emotional baseline. Maybe I need a therapist. What's that? Maybe I need a therapist.

Justin Moore [00:32:54]:
We just need to do more of these. Just talk more.

Jay Clouse [00:32:56]:
Just talk more.

Justin Moore [00:32:56]:
Because it's not like, I think it's not uncommon. Yeah. It's not uncommon. It's not uncommon. It's not uncommon. It's definitely like,

Jay Clouse [00:33:05]:
what is uncommon is people talking about it in public. Yes. Yes. Yes. Like, I hear this type of conversation in closed doors sometimes, but, like, I didn't know we're gonna go here. Yes. And there's, like, part of my brain is sorry.

Justin Moore [00:33:16]:
Was I not supposed to?

Jay Clouse [00:33:17]:
No. No. No. It's totally fine. This is why I, like, hit record as soon as we pick up the microphones. But, like, there's a part of my brain that's, like, should I even air this? But of course, I'm going to do it. But, like, there is the instinctual part where it's like, I have built authority and trust. And if I show weakness, like, dude, That was be bad for the brand.

Justin Moore [00:33:34]:
Okay. So so let me share just a quick anecdote of something I experienced in the social speakings course, which was let me tell okay. I'm gonna tell the the ending first, which is something I learned. I bawled my eyes out on my last livestream, like, legitimately. I there was, like, areas where I couldn't talk for, like, 2 minutes because every time I open my mouth, I would just, like, start crying again. I didn't expect to go there, but the title of the livestream was, what if you let them down? Mhmm. And it was about all the people in your life who you want so badly to respect you and be proud of you and say, hey. I'm, like, proud of you for doing this, like, creator thing or trying this non traditional path.

Justin Moore [00:34:15]:
And we talked about this. I talked about this topic, which is, like, yeah. What if you do let them down? What what does that mean? What does that potentially unlock for you in your life? And the 2 things that it brought up for me was, like, I catastrophize a lot because I because my last business failed, I am fearful that I will let my wife down if this new one does. And that is an ever present fear, and it prevents me from sometimes big taking bigger swings because of that. Right? Because, like, oh, well, what if this doesn't work out? Right? That's number 1. And then the other thing that I didn't expect to go on the livestream was I feel like I only have a couple more years with my kids before they, like, wanna hang out with their friends more than me. You know, my kids are older. They're 10 and 7.

Justin Moore [00:34:59]:
And it's like, I'm always think it's something I'm, like, always thinking about now. I'm, like, in my, like, feels era. I don't know what it is, but, like and so I'm at, like, kind of in a different chapter of my life where it's, like, I also feel a lot of momentum in the business, but I also wanna balance it with just, like, hanging out with my sons. Yeah. Like, throwing the ball around the front yard and, like, you know, when my kid bounds into the room and I'm, like, about to finish an email sequence, like, oh, look. Give me give me a second, buddy. Like, let me you know? And so it's, like, a different level of friction. But the way I was able to let myself go there or even, like, title a live stream that to talk about that was because when I was in this this ultra speaking course and we were going through all these exercises, the people that went somewhere like that allowed themself to, like, go to the human emotion, go to the kind of universal thing that we're all feeling regardless of where we're at in our careers and all this stuff too, that was when I connected with them.

Justin Moore [00:35:55]:
Mhmm. It was like, wow. Like, that because it wasn't even about their story. It was about I instantly related to that, to a a slightly different version of that in my life. Mhmm. It was like someone, I don't wanna, like, share because some of the stuff they they talked about in there was was in confidence, but it was like some people shared really tough things they were going through with their parents or or with their kids or their siblings or, like, fears that they had about themselves and their abilities and all that stuff too. And it was like, I don't feel that, but, like, I feel a version of that. And it instantly connected me with them.

Justin Moore [00:36:27]:
And so I feel like allowing yourself to go there and have this conversation is the thing. Yeah. That's the thing. It's not about the checklist or the tactic or the let me break down the sales page. And, like, of course, that helps with, like, the things that really personalize or or empathize the humanize, I would think is the word I was looking for. That's it. That's the core of it, I feel like.

Jay Clouse [00:36:51]:
I do so one of the topics I'm really interested in right now that I'm studying a lot is trust. Because, do you know Charlie Hone?

Justin Moore [00:36:59]:
H o h n? H o

Jay Clouse [00:37:01]:
e h n. I kind

Justin Moore [00:37:02]:
of that sounds familiar.

Jay Clouse [00:37:03]:
He's a book marketer. Yeah. He's worked with a bunch of people on great books. And I had a just, like, off the record conversation with him and asked him some questions about books. And one of the things that he looks for as an indicator of a book success is, like, is this person the embodiment of the idea that they're sharing? And for a while, I was like, maybe I'll just get really good at like teaching people how to get attention. But I don't I don't even like like getting attention sometimes. Like, this conference has been uncomfortable in some cases because, like, I'm in a session and then the speakers, like, mentions me and I'm like, oh, hi. This is not about me.

Jay Clouse [00:37:37]:
So I I feel like I can't be the embodiment of that, but I do feel like I have, an uncommon ability to build trust with people, but I actually don't really know how that is. So I'm trying to understand, like, what what is it that builds trust? And there's not a lot of great literature about it. But one of the things I did find was, a suggestion that people are more likely to build trust when they feel like they know the real you. And why I think what you're talking about, like, there's the relatability of people sharing human moments where it's like, I've had that experience and so I feel connected to you. But I also think in this world of, like, personal brands where you are more account than person, people often don't know that they feel the real you. And when you have a moment where it's like, I think I see the person under that mask, I think that actually is what creates trust. I think that's like the human moment where it's like, I think I know you now and I would feel comfortable in trusting you with something.

Justin Moore [00:38:37]:
It's funny because I was listening to an episode of, David Perrell's podcast, How I Write, which I love. Great podcast. Yeah. And he was, interviewing Lulu. You know this PR executive? I don't know if

Jay Clouse [00:38:46]:
she saw this one.

Justin Moore [00:38:47]:
Yeah. So she was the v I think the VP of comms at Substack. Okay. And she's, like, famous for not corporate speak, you know, where you you know, there's, like, this lingo, this style of writing that some for some reason, businesses adopt. That, like, no one talks like that. And it's, like, overly formal and it, like, no one really connects with it. And it's like a joke. Right? And she was just talking about, like, somehow, in a lot of situations, whether it's professional or even in your business or even when you're self employed, somehow we adopt this, like, veneer of the way we think we're supposed to act weird or talk or write.

Justin Moore [00:39:28]:
And and so the moment that someone pierces that and doesn't talk like that, and doesn't write like that, it's like this weird some I don't know, dude. I I do it too sometimes. Yeah. I've already, like, I've started okay. This is bizarre. But, like, I've started the way I talk on Twitter, I I write like a like a middle schooler. Like, I literally I when I say you, I I do the letter u. You know? Or r.

Justin Moore [00:39:54]:
I say the letter r. Right? And this is how I text. This is how I've always, like, taught like, just, like, casually. And I've literally thought, like, as I'm writing my book, I was like, should I do this? This is weird, but, like, should I write like that in the book? Because, like, that's how I talk. Like, that's how I text people. That's how I and but it's like I'm I'm I'm like, you know, I have this formal expectation that I feel like I'm supposed to write a book a certain way. So I don't know if I'm actually gonna do it, but, like, I'm having this thought because it's like Yeah.

Jay Clouse [00:40:21]:
This is

Justin Moore [00:40:21]:
how I actually am in real life. Like, I don't know.

Jay Clouse [00:40:23]:
Yeah. First off, let's take off that badge because it's jingly. Oh. I was gonna tell you that 40 minutes ago. I hope it hasn't been awful. Second of all, yeah. So where are you landing on that? Because I wonder what a copy editor would say about that. I agree with this.

Jay Clouse [00:40:35]:
And it's it's something that I'm thinking about on Twitter too. Like, I noticed that the way I respond to, like, thoughtful nuanced questions in the lab, for example, in comments or direct messages is I'll, like, fire off some thoughts that use a lot of, I don't wanna say academic language, but very specific terms that are, like, definitely not a 7th grade reading level. And then when I go on Twitter, it would be, like, writing for, like, the masses. And I would simplify and worry about the hook. And I started thinking, if I'm gonna lead to this advanced education thing, I'm just gonna assume that the people following me want the, like, more thoughtful, dense material. And, like, I started typing differently. Typing. Writing differently on Twitter as well.

Jay Clouse [00:41:14]:
I like that angle. So where are you gonna land? What do you think?

Justin Moore [00:41:17]:
I don't think, like, actual Justin will let me do that. But to that point, I it's something interesting. I don't know if you saw this post that, Alex Hormozi made recently folks up who are listening, but basically, the the TLDR is that for the last year or so, he was venturing into content that was basically one concentric circle up from his business type content where he was talking about life stuff and workout stuff and, like, relationships and all that stuff too. And the idea would be that it's like a higher top of funnel. More people. Right? And, like, they'll discover him and go down the rabbit hole like you were talking about. But he, like, did a really intense analysis of, like, his business, the bottom line, and basically determined that that was an a failed experiment. Like, that actually did not generate more revenue, more business.

Justin Moore [00:42:13]:
And so he basically said, I'm gonna go back to, like, not doing the fast editing, not to I'm just gonna go back to, like, hyper specific. I mean, he's still very large, obviously, of a very large audience, but I'm going to go back to, like, the not fancy editing, just, like, pure business knowledge. Like, that's gonna be the thing that drive results. And to some degree, like, this has been something I've struggled with, dude, too, because, like, the core of my business is, like, sponsorship strategy. Like, how nerd how niche is that? Like, this is not what most people are thinking about, and I've been really struggling to grow my YouTube channel because of it. Right? Because, you know, most people are not, like, searching on YouTube, like, how to, like, negotiate a brand deal or, like, how some people are.

Jay Clouse [00:42:49]:
Yeah.

Justin Moore [00:42:50]:
But it's very this is not the thing that most people think about on a day to day. And every YouTube strategist that I've hired, literally, I've hired a bunch of them, they said, do the Alex Fermosy strategy. Go 1 up and talk about the, you know, the top ten ways to make money on the Internet and, like, you know, one of them is sponsorships and, like, this type of thing. And I just had felt such a resistance to doing that because I don't know. I I just don't know if that's really whether it even makes business sense. Do I want more views? Like, because, you know, I'm getting, let's say, an average of 500 or a 1000 views on a YouTube video. You know? Just be real, man. Sometimes I look at your channel.

Justin Moore [00:43:26]:
I'm like, damn. That's amazing. Like, you're getting, you know, tens of 1,000, 1000000 of views on on a video about, you know, somewhat similar topics around being a creator. What am I doing here? Like, just, you know, making videos about sponsorship strategy when I'm getting 100 of views. It just it it it's confounding sometimes.

Jay Clouse [00:43:44]:
Yeah. Man. Well, I'm not a YouTube strategist, so I won't try to diagnose your problems. But I I have found that I'm

Justin Moore [00:43:51]:
very proud of you, by the way. I'm not, like, like, jealous or anything. You deserve it. But, you know, it's like anyone. You look at anyone and it's like Yeah. Should I be doing that?

Jay Clouse [00:43:58]:
This is all packaging. Like, this is true on YouTube, but it's like human nature is what we've come to realize is people want candy. And if you wanna provide vegetables, you better make those vegetables look like candy. Or like you're not gonna get the click. And if you don't get the click then you don't get any watch time. So like the first battle is just getting the click on YouTube. So there's like there's some level of like sufficient clickbaity ness that you have to do with any video to say the only way this thing is gonna fly is if in the first 24 hours, a lot of people would say like, I actually have a lot of differing opinions from YouTube strategists, but I don't talk about them because I'm not a YouTube strategist. So like who am I to say this is what I believe? But here's what I believe about YouTube from like the data I've seen and how I've approached other things analytically.

Jay Clouse [00:44:47]:
And if I didn't talk to YouTube strategist, this is the assumptions I would make. I think the click through rate you get in your first 24 hours is like everything. I would be changing our thumbnail on YouTube, like, within the first 10 minutes more often than we do just based on the immediate click through rate because I just don't see it fluctuate that much over time. People say like, no, no, the YouTube algorithm keeps working and it will find people and it will change. But it's like, YouTube work algorithm works as hard as that video performs as well in the first 24 hours. So if the first 24 hours is a flop, it's not gonna work that hard to try to find an audience for it. I think the first 24 hour click through rate is like everything to gauge whether a video is gonna be successful. And so for me like I know immediately how that video is gonna perform across the channel.

Jay Clouse [00:45:32]:
I haven't seen any of our videos change over time like, significantly.

Justin Moore [00:45:38]:
Bro, this is very frustrating to me because I only create evergreen content. And I feel like if it's not hyper relevant to someone in in that 24 hour period when I upload it, it, like, tanks the long tail performance of it.

Jay Clouse [00:45:50]:
And search is a different game. We don't play the search game. So if you're, like, going for keywords and trying to, like, play a search game, this goes out the window. But if you're trying to, like, get views from the recommended and homepage, like, it's all about I'm on the homepage, I'm presented with like 10 or 12 videos, which one am I gonna click? And like for us, if our click through rate is less than 5% that video is gonna be dead in the first 24 hours. If the click through rate is like 8 to 10% that thing's gonna hit. Like Jenny's video was our best and it was close to 10% for the first several hours and then the first 24 hours I think it was like 8.9%. Today it's down to like 4.4 because they've just like pushed the shit out of it. But I can see like is this video gonna get a ton of views in the first 24 hours and how long will that persist? Now if you have a great click through rate but your view time is shitty then that's also gonna degrade the performance of that video.

Jay Clouse [00:46:45]:
Like our Thomas Frank video had a great click through rate but the view time wasn't very good. So, like, it start off really hot then planed off and it was done.

Justin Moore [00:46:52]:
Let me ask your honest advice. Going back to your presentation about stuff that you're proud of. I am so proud of the videos I put out.

Jay Clouse [00:47:00]:
They're great.

Justin Moore [00:47:01]:
Like, every single video yeah. Every single video I put out, I'm like, I'm so excited. I you talked about energy, like, where are you finding yourself, like I'm I grab I love the content stuff, dude. I love making those videos. I think they're so useful, especially the public sponsorship coaching calls I do. I think they're really helpful. But I just don't, you know, it's like it's hard for me to play the game of, like, doing anything different Yeah. Because it's like, I know here's the other thing.

Justin Moore [00:47:27]:
It's like, I wanna have an impact. I wanna have a larger impact and help people understand, like, you should pay attention about sponsorships. They can be be hugely meaningful in your business. And so I do I feel that, but it's like, I feel this resistance to, like, somehow playing the quote unquote game Yeah. Of the vegetable candy packaging, you know.

Jay Clouse [00:47:44]:
Yeah. I get it. I get it. And you don't have to.

Justin Moore [00:47:46]:
One one YouTube strategist was like, just talk about, you know, how much money mister beast could make in a brand deal, you know. And that's fine. I get I get it. It's just like I feel I don't wanna make that video.

Jay Clouse [00:47:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. And it it it'll self select for different viewers too. Right? I think the hard thing about channels that are predicated on, like, public coaching is it doesn't appeal to the selfish nature that we all have. It just doesn't feel like it's for us. It's for this person. And if like the context is incredibly aligned and that's obvious to me, then maybe you've got me. But like titling a video, like, breaking down J.

Jay Clouse [00:48:22]:
Klaus's sponsorship strategy, if people are interested in me, they might watch it. But, like, that's packaged around me more than it is around sponsorship strategy, in my opinion. It's a good point. So, like, if I'm if I'm you and I'm doing these videos, I'm trying to say, like, how do I get the viewer to see themselves in this package more quickly? And maybe it's, like, their desire that they want I mean, there is some degree that, like, if you want views, you have to play the game. Like, you have to say, here's how to earn $10,000 in sponsorship revenue every month. Okay. Cool. And then, like, they will be introduced to you, your style of teaching, your way of looking at things, and it will overcome that package.

Jay Clouse [00:49:02]:
It will like as long as it delivers on the promise it can undo the perception of your brand that the package might give. But it's a spectrum. How far you wanna lean into that is a question you have. Like I look at Noah Kagan's channel and I'm like I would never make all my videos like so explicitly money oriented. Because it self selects for a certain type of person that

Justin Moore [00:49:22]:
I don't

Jay Clouse [00:49:23]:
think is my type of person. But there's like something to be learned there also in the packaging. But again, not a YouTube strategist. I will say my one last opinion on YouTube strategy that I have that maybe someone could tell me differently. I just think it's like as simple as YouTube wants to maximize time on platform. So part of the reason that we can get by with like 5% click through rates is that our videos are long and so people spend a lot of time on platform Yeah. Watching it when they watch. But it's nuanced.

Jay Clouse [00:49:50]:
I know that.

Justin Moore [00:49:52]:
Dude, I'm so proud of you, by the way. Like, I just wanna be clear and like Same. You know, watching what you've built has been so fun over the last couple years, man.

Jay Clouse [00:50:02]:
YouTube is the only other business where I've effectively delegated.

Justin Moore [00:50:05]:
Doesn't that tell you something about your life and your business?

Jay Clouse [00:50:08]:
But here's the thing, that worked because it was a net new project. So like I didn't have to learn something and then teach someone how to do it. I had somebody lead the effort from day 1. There's so much in the business that I have done. I've done my way. And now, like, it's hard for me to train and hand off. Like, but why? I don't know. I really don't know.

Jay Clouse [00:50:30]:
Part of it is, I was talking to Austin Church about this yesterday. Part of it is the schedule is so intense that I'm always feeling a little bit behind in the deadline for whatever the thing is is like tomorrow. And so my empathy makes me feel like it is unkind to try and force a very near term deadline on somebody else. So, like, in the moment, it's like, I gotta eat the shit this time, and then we'll get ahead and I'll I'll hand it off next time. But I never get ahead of schedule to give it to somebody else. And I should just take a week off.

Justin Moore [00:51:03]:
I think

Jay Clouse [00:51:03]:
I should take 2 weeks off.

Justin Moore [00:51:04]:
I think it's a finite project. You say, okay. Gotta be done. Like, I'm gonna make a bunch of SOPs about how I do this, hand this off. Dude, it it always sucks to, like, hire, train the people. Dude, that that's just like, but that is a finite project with ongoing rewards. Just do it.

Jay Clouse [00:51:22]:
Yeah. I know. I know. You should

Justin Moore [00:51:24]:
do it before Mallory gives birth.

Jay Clouse [00:51:26]:
Good. I know. Like,

Justin Moore [00:51:28]:
because then you're definitely not gonna do it. But the thing is, like

Jay Clouse [00:51:31]:
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, my assistant Izzy is incredible. I need to give her more power. But outside Izzy, it's just me and Mal. And, like, we're both trying to take some form of parental leave. So, like, that's hard.

Jay Clouse [00:51:44]:
Could we hire more? Maybe. But that would also, like, undo some of the financial cushion that I feel right now and feel good about that I've been working really hard to achieve. So there's there's gonna be some structural changes for sure. Like, it's it's always evolving. I have to get better at this delegating thing. Have to have to have to. Because, like, the most important thing now is I want more space because I want to consume more and different information.

Justin Moore [00:52:14]:
Okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a wild idea here. Wild idea. Okay. And then we're gonna mic drop the podcast. Okay? You didn't have 60 k in revenue from creator HQ as of a month ago. Right. Take the 60 k and hire someone.

Justin Moore [00:52:32]:
Boy. You've got a baseline, very consistent business without the 60 k. Hire someone with the 60 k.

Jay Clouse [00:52:39]:
Well, here's the thing. Like, we have capacity on the scene. It's not even that I need to hire somebody.

Justin Moore [00:52:44]:
Dude, what are we even talking about here? Like, I'm sick of you. Just just do it, dude. Come on. Do you need, like, an accountability coach? Like, my body tutor, I'll just text you every day and

Jay Clouse [00:52:54]:
be like, what what have you given Izzy to

Justin Moore [00:52:56]:
help What have you delegated today?

Jay Clouse [00:52:57]:
What have you delegated? What what is Izzy?

Justin Moore [00:52:59]:
Enter your die enter your delegation diary.

Jay Clouse [00:53:02]:
Fun fact. So Izzy is a professional soccer player. Oh, wow. She plays for the Kansas City Current.

Justin Moore [00:53:08]:
Holy cow.

Jay Clouse [00:53:08]:
She's really good. And she's incredible. But also, I cannot recommend highly enough to hire athletes. They don't have to be professional athletes. But, man, they understand deadlines, hard work. Like, she's not just able to do the work. She's, like, genuinely excited to do things. It's just awesome.

Jay Clouse [00:53:29]:
So, yeah, I need to need to give her some more.

Justin Moore [00:53:31]:
That's a little that's a little hat hiring hack right there.

Jay Clouse [00:53:34]:
I know. It is. I I happened upon it because Ohio State Ohio State University has this internship program where they will pay for student athletes to work at your company to get job experience because most collegiate athletes don't go pro.

Justin Moore [00:53:46]:
That's sick.

Jay Clouse [00:53:47]:
And I worked with her as an intern when she was a student at Ohio State. And then she came back around. She's like, I'm trying to do something on the side. But those those kids were like the hardest working people. Incredible discipline, great attitude, incredibly coachable. Athletes are great. Dude. So pro tip.

Jay Clouse [00:54:06]:
Dude, love the pro tip, man. Also, don't try to hire my assistant out front of me.

Justin Moore [00:54:11]:
Okay. So what what are you gonna commit to me in public here to doing with respect to delegation?

Jay Clouse [00:54:17]:
I don't know. I don't know. One thing that came to mind today at Claire's talk, Claire Bartholick, she gave a talk about Instagram. I really want to like one thing that's really helped with YouTube channel is that basically Connor owns YouTube. And I want Mallory to own Instagram. I think I need a well, I have an audio engineer that I'm trying to elevate into a producer on the podcast side because I want him to own podcasting. I think if I can at least delegate those platforms to producers quote unquote even if I'm still like producing a lot of the ideas and the content itself that would open up a lot of space for me.

Justin Moore [00:54:55]:
One insight quickly to the content, like, game, you know, Kevin from, Epic Gardening, I asked him, like, what do you still own, like, in your business? And he said, the only basically, the main thing I own is content. And the thing that I I always have my eyeballs on is when a piece of video content goes out. I don't really approve blog posts anymore, but, like, if it's a YouTube video or a short they don't do a ton of shorts. And so if it's a short or something and they have a really large reach, he's like like, that that's something that I still own. And so an interesting thing would be to see what other areas from a publication perspective in your business would you feel comfortable delegating without you actually listening or watching the final product?

Jay Clouse [00:55:45]:
We've gotten there a little bit on the audio side. Like, I don't listen to the final cut before it's aired. But I'm still like scripting and planning that definitely not gonna let go of the newsletter. Because writing is a competency. I wanna continue to get better at YouTube. I do a final pass mostly just for like typos and things. So I feel like that's actually gotten better. And I did just last week, like increase my plan with my accountant to step out of some of the finance stuff a little bit more.

Jay Clouse [00:56:14]:
We have a financial planner now. So I am trying to get rid of some admin stuff too. I think things are generally getting better, but it's a it's a hard thing.

Justin Moore [00:56:25]:
So perhaps the exercise is allowing yourself to admit that they're getting better.

Jay Clouse [00:56:31]:
It's true. I don't I don't recognize that because that's a big part of it too. Alright. What are you committing to?

Justin Moore [00:56:38]:
Oh, my god, dude.

Jay Clouse [00:56:38]:
Books done next month?

Justin Moore [00:56:40]:
I'm committing to, broken, sentences and, middle school grammar, on my in my book now. What am I committing to? I'm committing to just, like, hanging out with my kids more. That's like the I already hang out more a lot with them.

Jay Clouse [00:56:58]:
Can we go on one last rift? Do you have time?

Justin Moore [00:57:00]:
Yeah. Of course. Okay. I always have time.

Jay Clouse [00:57:02]:
So the thing is, I love that you said that. What I've realized about so many of the creators that I have admired and modeled after, they don't have that life. They are either still early enough, like young enough that they don't have serious partnerships, they don't have kids, or they are they've recognized that that's just not something they want in their life. And they sacrifice that part of their life for work. And that's not a model that I can model. You know? Like, this is another reason why I really respect the life of authors as creators is because they seem to have the most, on average, like, well adjusted family first or, like, they're they're just there more. They're yeah. And that's important to me.

Jay Clouse [00:57:48]:
So just just to tell people, like, if you are looking at somebody and you're trying to model after their path and their success, ask yourself, like, do they actually lead the life that I see myself leading? Because a lot of people are just willing to sacrifice everything for work. And it's like why they got where they are.

Justin Moore [00:58:06]:
So the reason I can have this perspective is because my last business failed. And I did that. I try I did have a family, but, like, I tried to I tried to do the grind. I tried to, you know, force that business to to to actually work, and, of course, COVID crushed it. But even if COVID hadn't crushed it, it was, like, not a business. Like, I I realized several years into it, I was like, this is a really tough business to run. And in my darkest moment, the nadir of my life, emotionally, professionally, everything, Who was there? My family. My kids.

Justin Moore [00:58:45]:
Yeah, dude. It's like I have the business so I can provide for my family. Totally. So, like, it's not the business.

Jay Clouse [00:58:55]:
Yeah.

Justin Moore [00:58:56]:
It's because I'm providing for my family. And, like, I think one one really hard thing for both my wife and I was, like, admitting to ourselves that we had an an identity outside of being parents. Those first those first few years are a blur, you know, and everything is about being a dad or being a mom. Those of you who are listening who can identify with that, it's like it's it's hard to to separate yourself. And and it's like then admitting, like, no. I actually I like actually like having a career. I actually like to, like, I I wanna write this book or I wanna do this thing or whatever. It's a very guilty feeling because it's like every moment that you take away for your personal pursuit feels like a moment stolen

Jay Clouse [00:59:38]:
Mhmm.

Justin Moore [00:59:38]:
From time with your family. I think this is why I'm feeling this so acutely right now as my kids are getting older, you know, because it's very apparent. Because they are having this starting to have interests outside of, like, hanging out with my wife and I. You know? And so I think what you said is so important, dude, especially in this creator game when there's always another project. There's always another thing to do. Whereas when you're a, you know, employee, it's like you can kinda clock out to some degree depending on your job. But, like, there's always a temptation to just, like, do more. Yep.

Justin Moore [01:00:10]:
And you just have to know when enough is. Yep. And the the best description that I can give is this, is that for the longest time, I felt that there was, like, a corner that I was about to round in my in my life, in my business. Like, if I just get this if I just launch creator HQ, or if I just launched this, you know, new membership or I just launch this or get to this revenue point, I'll finally have arrived at my destination. I'll finally have arrived. And with the agency failing, what I realize is there is no corner. Corner does not exist. It's the journey to get there.

Justin Moore [01:00:47]:
That's what you have to live for and enjoy. That's why I'm maximizing the time spending with my family and my kids right now.